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This Oral History Session was Recorded: February 4th 1991;
At the Home of:
R.B. & Donna Anderson
90 North Center Street
Grantsville, Utah
By
Jerrilyn (Jerri) Ramos
The other participants were:
Belinda Butler
Nancy Hartmann
Dr. Art Smith
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Introduction
When I first approached Donna Anderson about bringing my oral history class to her home to visit with her and her husband R.B., she gave me an emphatic "no."
After I explained that our visit would be very informal, like a group of friends chatting about the past, she began to thaw and finally agreed to our class coming to her home, after which we set the appointment to coincide with regular class-time: between the hours of five and seven-thirty pm on Monday, February the fourth. Two days after our conversation, Donna called me on the phone and asked me far exact details of the upcoming meeting to be held. I explained that our class simply wished to talk about her family's past here in Grantsville. I also mentioned that a tape recording would be made on the night of the visit for future generations. Donna immediately withdrew from the appointment. So, I explained again about the purpose of the class, and that the tape was to preserve the family's oral history--not to make her or her loved ones "look stupid or ridiculous," which was what she feared. With continued reassurances, she again thawed, then reconfirmed the appointment date and time.
The night of our meeting, the class members: Belinda Butler, Nancy Hartman and myself, and our Oral History Professor, Dr. Art Smith met at Soelberg's Thriftway in Grantsville, and then played "follow-the-leader" to the Anderson's home on North Center Street. After pulling our cars into their driveway, we walked up their sidewalk en masse, I knocked on their door, and we were invited into the Anderson home. Inside the living-room, facing east and west, were a set of couches. An octagon coffee-table sat in the center of the room behind which a card-table had been set up to hold several antiques that Donna had been given by her mother. Among these antiques was her family's Bible. [James R. Williams family]
At the north side of the room were two easy-chairs. This was where Donna and R.B. sat, so I and Nancy sat on the east couch, and Dr. Smith and Belinda sat on the west couch.
After exchanging greetings, and thanking the Anderson's for their hospitality, I placed the tape recorder on the table in front of them, plugged it on, and turned it on. Belinda started the ball rolling, and things went from there.
The following is as accurate a transcript as I could make of what followed...
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Belinda: You need to talk about the opera house, and about the academy. Because I remember my grandparents talking about the academy.
R.B.: Anderson: I'm not even a native. I wasn't even born here.
Donna Anderson: Now you tell them how and where you were born.
Jerri: Yea, just tell us that. Start from the beginning. What day was it?
R.B.: Well it was...
Donna: He was...Well, I can tell you. He was born in Tooele, December the twenty-ninth, nineteen fifteen. His mother came (R.B. interrupts Do they want to hear the history of Tooele? Donna interrupts: No, I know, but this tells how you got here. (R.B. interrupts: You just have to skip a whole bunch of years.)
Donna: This tells how you got here.
Donna: He was living in Tooele. His mother, his grandma and grampa Bevan, and his grandma and grampa Anderson lived in Salt Lake...in Sandy, Utah. And Brigham Young asked them, the Andersons and the Bevans, to go to Canada. To settle Canada. So they both went to Canada. And there his father and mother met. They were to go to Lethbridge I think, but they just ended up in Raymond, Canada.
Dr. Art Smith: That's where I was raised. In Raymond, Alberta, Canada.
R.B.: In Raymond?
Jerri: Small world. Gosh.
R.B.: You know, we made a trip up there, and I don't think it has changed at all.
Donna: It looked like Grantsville to me.
Dr. Smith: And I thought Grantsville looked familiar to me, too.
Donna: Yes, it really reminded me of Grantsville, a lot.
Dr. Smith: Now what... Andersons up there?
R.B.: Well, my dad ran a grocery store in Tooele for years and years.
Donna: What happened to them was...When his mother was going to have him, she decided...by that time the Bevanses and the Andersons had both come back down here. They had left up there. His mother and dad had stayed up there, and he was the seventh (they had ten children) and he was the seventh. And she decided that she was going to have him here in Tooele. So, she came down here to her mother, and I guess it's because the winters are so cold in Canada.
R.B.: Native-born American. The rest of them need passports.
Donna: So, when he was born. ..his brothers and sisters. ..the six others are Canadian citizens. Then after he was born she went back, and then afterwards she came back. And then they lived in Tooele, so he lived in Tooele.
Dr. Smith: When did they come back from Canada?
Donna: I don't know the date of that, but the other kids were all born down here.
R.B.: It was horse and buggy, I'll tell you.
Dr. Smith: I'll bet.
Donna: And (when they moved) it was in a wagon, and they put the kids in a wire.
Dr. Smith: You don't know where Snowline is, do you?
Donna: Snowline, I think by Dillon.
Dr. Smith: We went for a ride up there, and here was a sign that said: Snowline.
R.B.: Was that south of Dillon or north of Dillon?
Donna: South of Dillon.
Jerri: Now where Is Dillon?
Donna: Montana.
Jerri: Oh, Dillon Montana.
R.B.: Now did you come here to hear the history of Montana, Canada, or Tooele?
Jerri: Whatever you want to tell us.
Donna: I was just telling them how you got here.
Dr. Smith: How did you get here?
Donna: I was born right here. I have lived here all my life.
Belinda: What is your maiden name?
Donna: Williams.
Belinda: Around the corner, J.R. Williams!
Donna: Yes I was born around the corner right there. (Pointing east down Clark street.) I was James R. Williams daughter.
Dr. Smith: And what was your full name?
Donna: My name is Donna Williams Anderson. (Something)
Belinda: How many years would it be?
Donna: He was the principal at the school, and a school teacher for forty years. He was a school teacher for a long time, and then he was principal in the school for many years. And then he retired, and then he sold real estate for a while, and then he was a judge for a while.
Jerri: Well, so how did you two meet?
R.B.: Well, in the olden days, 1940; 1930 along there, Tooele kids (boys) used to come down and chase the girls. Good-looking girls and all the boys were blind, they didn't know anything. So all us hot-shots from Tooele would come down and get the girls. We'd go to the Opera House and they'd come out of the show, and we could take our pick.
Donna: One of my girlfriends brought you to my house. And then we went out. You had another girlfriend and so we didn't start going together till later.
R.B.: Do you want to hear about her?
Donna: No. No. Okay. Now tell us about Little Reno. Now tell them about how you got Little Reno.
R.B.: Okay. The land that Little Reno is on I think was homesteaded by Mr. Soelberg. Now that's the Jeffries girl's great grandfather.
Donna: Great, great grandfather.
R.B.: Ray Soelberg's father. And they wanted to go into the chicken business, and they built some cheap coops and dug a well, and had a pond, and a home, and along comes 1929. They lost it to Tooele Bank. And my dad had a little money in there, and he took that as collateral for his own soil. But he took that rather than get nothing, but the bank itself went broke.
Donna: Well, but he had to quit his...he was in the grocery business in Tooele. And he had to close up his grocery business because the smelter, the Tooele smelter...
R.B.: to Dr. Smith: How old are you?
Dr. Smith: Fifty-nine. How old are you?
R.B.: I'm talking to a bunch of kids here. That gripes me. When I start talking about the Great Depression, you don't know anything about it.
Dr. Smith: How old are you? I was born in 1931. I know a lot about it.
R.B.: Sure...two-years-old.
Dr. Smith: We were hungry.
R.B.: 1931. He was born in '31, and the crash was in '29.
Jerri: But I know about the Depression because I listened to stories from my dad and my mother my whole life.
Belinda: Well, my grandparents told me all the time.
Jerri: I know it's not the same as living through it, but I do know of it because I had parents in it. .
Donna: I think that was one big thing in our lives...the bank going broke, and the Depression, and the drought that came along with it.
R.B.: Grantsville had a bank go broke.
Donna: And it went broke, too.
Belinda: Where was that at? Where was the bank at? Was it in the...
R.B.: It was on the drug store corner.
Donna: Where Bob has his...
Belinda: Now was it inside the store?
Donna: Well, it was part of it. The east part of it.
Jerri: Is it the same building (that is standing there now)?
Donna: Um-hum.
Jerri: It's the same building.
Belinda: Well, that building is ancient.
Jerri: For goodness sake.
Donna: And then they had in the other part, they had the Post Office there too for awhile.
Belinda: I remember going there when I was a little girl, and opening up to get my mail.
Donna: But anyway, he had a grocery store, and they couldn't pay their bills because he was charging to the people who worked at the smelter. So he didn't go broke, did he? He just closed up the store.
R.B.:- But it's hard to talk to kids about the Depression, they don't know what hard times are.
Belinda: Well, I think we're going to experience some.
Jerri: I could beg to differ with you. It depends upon the kid. I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth.
R.B.: - The Depression was from '29 till the war started, and it affected everyone. And you were all born after that.
Dr. Smith: WAIT!
Jerri: I know, but we had real hard times as a family. I mean...
R.B.: There's people who have hard times now. One thing about it: everybody was in the same boat. Everybody was broke.
Donna: Well, my dad always had. ..because he was a teacher he always had a job. He didn't have to go on WPA; which most of the people here in Grantsville did have to work. And I was working at the school. I was the secretary and they would pay their...they would come and pay their $5.00 tuition with ten cents at a time. It was really rough. I mean, but I look back at it now and I think, maybe we were happier than some of these kids are now...who have everything. But anyway, he closed his business, and they came to Grantsville. At that time, the highway didn't go past that property.
R.B.: This used to be the Lincoln Highway right here. (Center Street) Out this street and out past your ranch. (Said to Belinda who lives on the Old Lincoln Highway.)
Belinda: Yes, I'm building my house out there on the Old Lincoln Highway. You'll have to come and see it.
Donna: Out to the Lincoln Highway was here...
R.B.: You see this street right here...There was a service station around the corner up there where it turned west.
Belinda: There was a service station just up from where I'm building my house. And they sold boot-leg whiskey from the back door. And they pumped gas, I'm told, out of those big cans. And we've found a lot of bottles-- you know--antique bottles that people would've filled with gin.
Donna: But I don't remember when...
R.B.: That makes me laugh because the guy you bought your gin from was Harry Carrapolisi and it came in a five-gallon glass jar. It cost about twenty dollars, and then he'd sell it in pints and glasses. Pump gas in the front, and gin from the back. I never done it, but Leonard Charles did. He worked in there, and he was married to my older sister. Are you taking this down?
Jerri: Yes, I sure am.
R.B.: Cancel that out.
Jerri: No!, That is part of the history we need to know. Now don't be embarrassed about anything that's on there.
R.B.: I don't know if I want her recording...
Donna: Then tell them how you got there.
R.B.: How I got up there?
Donna: Yea--Um-hum.
R.B.: Well,...
Jerri: Is that why it was called Little Reno was because it boot-legged whiskey?
R.B.: It did boot-leg whiskey. Leonard Charles did sell the whiskey, but he made Little Reno when he was running it.
Jerri: So, that must be why, because of the boot-legged whiskey. And you took over that place. No?
Donna: No
Jerri: Oh, so you had another place.
R.B.: I eventually bought it.
Jerri: Oh, I see.
Donna: But not where that was. Not where that place was. The highway then got built up where it is now, and was Forty and Fifty Highway, and up where Swenson's live, where we were and we didn't have any boot-leg whiskey where we were. Len went and got a job when they could, didn't he?
R.B.: Yes. But after the war everyone wanted to go on a trip, and they had gasoline, and cars, and there was no place to stay. We converted those old chicken coops to a motel, and started a motel business. And really, we done quite well for the times--You know. You gotta remember that nowadays a good basketball player will make 24 million dollars in five years, and in those days we worked all day (on season) and we'd work all day for one dollar.
Jerri to Donna: And you did all...You told me once that you did all the washing for that place?
Donna: Um-hum.
Jerri: By hand?
Donna: No...
R.B.: Not by hand.
Jerri: Not by hand?
R.B.: We had a Slusher, (Donna: Washer) with a wringer on it.
Jerri: Oh, you had a Slusher with a wringer on it.
Donna: Fifty sheets.
R.B.: We'd hang them up and the wind would dry them and we'd put them back on the bed.
Donna: Thank goodness for the wind because in all weather it came. And we'd press the sheets, and we did our own laundry, and we'd hire somebody to clean usually, didn't we?
R.B.: We'd have hired girls and they'd get fifty cents a cabin. That is something else.
Donna: And then we'd do the laundry.
R.B.: And the business was good, we filled up most of the time.
Dr. Smith: Now, where-abouts was it? Where is it now?
Belinda: Well, We 'll take and show you.
Dr. Smith: Oh, okay.
Donna: You just go straight up this road, them you curve a little bit, and you run right into it. It's just a little ways from here.
Donna: It seems like we just did the motel business and service station business.
R.B.: It was really hard work. Long days in the summer, and in the winter.
Jerri: Now did you like have a soda shop in your place?
R.B.: We sold bottles of pop, and we even sold beer when it was Charles'.
Donna: That was before...oh...nineteen...
R.B.: Now, how far back do you want ta go? To Adam?
Donna: 1940 was when we. ..We got married in 1940, and we went up there, and they were selling beer. And we didn't...We really didn't like it. We didn't stay very long, did we? We left there. We left. He was working for his dad, and we were living in a little apartment in back. And it was just like...lt really wasn't very good. So, we stayed there...l think...We stayed in 1940, the rest of that summer, and then part of the next summer, and the winter and then the next summer we left that place with the promise of a two week job, and two hundred and fifty dollars in the bank, and a nineteen dollar and some-odd cents payment on a car.
Dr. Smith: Oh my gosh
Jerri: Nineteen dollars? Payment on a car? Gosh.
R.B.: Well, what do you expect it was a '41 Ford, four-door sedan with a V-8 engine. A beautiful thing.
Jerri: I know.
Belinda: Well worth the price, huh?
R.B.: Yeah!
Jerri: Did it have a rumble-seat?
Donna & R.B. : No, it was a four-door.
Jerri: Oh, it was a four-door Sedan.
Donna: At the edge of Tooele we got an apartment in the...Were they the Ruth Apartments? Or else Carol...
R.B.: I believe that was the bottom.
Donna: That was the bottom rung of the ladder.
Belinda: Where are those at? Are they still standing? Up in New Town? Okay.
Jerri: Where's New Town?
Belinda: By the Arctic Circle.
Jerri: Oh, okay.
Donna: It was across the street. I don't know if it's still standing or not.
R.B.: Really, you haven't lived until you make a lunch, carry it to work, to Rustle, and if you don't get on, you take the lunch back, end then you take it back at 3 O'clock, and you don't get on, and you bring the lunch back, and then you go up at midnight, and if you don't get on, you eat the lunch.
Dr. Smith: Oh my gosh.
Belinda: Where was Rustle, was that the smelter?
R.B.: When I say Rustle (Donna: You go up and try to get on.) they had a line five men wide, in the middle of the Depression, and 150 feet long or more, and they'd put 20 guys to work. And the average salary could've been 7 dollars. That was per shift.
Jerri: And that was a lot of money?
R.B.: Yes. That was good pay. [Something...]
Donna: Well, we stayed there for two months, that was all we could stand it. Then we moved. (R.B.: They had a community bathroom.) Yeah, we had to use the bathroom with two or three other families. Anyway, we moved to a house...A basement in a house.
R.B.: This is depressing, you know?
Donna: Just depress him... And he got on the smelter. About...Or the tunnel. Now tell them.
R.B.: Yes, I was working at the tunnel on December the Seventh.
Jerri: What's the tunnel?
Donna: That Was. ..They don't. ..There...
R.B.: During the war I was working at the tunnel.
Jerri: But what Is the tunnel?
Belinda: What's the tunnel? Tell us about the tunnel. I don't even know what it is I think I'm pretty-well versed.
R.B.: Many years ago they had a tunnel that went right under the smelter, and back into Bingham to get the rich ore out.
Belinda: Oh my goodness.
R.B.: Don't you remember? You were there in the tunnel days in Tooele When we used to dance in the streets!
Dr. Smith: It went under the mountains?
R.B.: Right under the smelter from down below.
Donna: See the smelter, there's nothing under the smelter.
Jerri: So, it went to the mine? They were getting copper out of it?
Donna: It went from this side of the Oquirrhs, back to the other side.
R.B.: Right underneath.
Belinda: Did they know you were doing that? Weren't you kind of encroaching on their ore?
R.B.: No, The Same company owned everything.
Jerri: Bingham. If it was Bingham that's why...
R.B.: That's where I was December the Seventh. Where were you December Seventh? [Asked of Dr. Smith.]
Belinda: Well, I wasn't even a twinkle in my father's eye.
Jerri: Me, neither.
Donna: He was there working, and I was in the basement apartment.
Jerri: You were listening ta the radio...
Donna: Listening to the radio, and I heard that Pearl Harbor had been bombed. So, I think my girl-friend and I went down to the drug store and had a drink of pop or something...(Jerri & Donna together:) To celebrate!
Donna: No, I'll tell you...You had a really sick feeling. I really did have a sick feeling. A really sick feeling.
Belinda: Was the drug store down there...
Donna: We were living at Tooele at the time.
Belinda: Was the drug store where that Janice's Supplies is now?
Donna: It was Evans's Drug then.
Jerri: So, it was on Vine and Main Street in Tooele.
Donna: I walked down there and he came home. And then things really started to getting...You know...Then they started building the Depot.
R.B.: I used to work at the Depot. I drove a dump truck. ..out to the batch and back. You know what a batch is?
Jerri: I have no idea.
R.B.: And I got a dollar ten an hour.
Donna: And we thought, boy, were we rich. We saved two hundred dollars and lived on only part of the money.
R.B.: Uncle Sam was just like that. [Hand outstretched with the palm down.]
Donna: Oh, in 1940 we had to sign up for the draft. We got married in April, and he signed up for the draft in the summer. That's when they started the draft. And we were up in Tooele when that happened, and then...
Belinda: Well, did you get called up?
Donna: No, he didn't...
Jerri: Oh, then he didn't ever have to go?
Donna: Oh, yes. Oh, he did go.
R.B.: They got that close to me and I volunteered for the Seebee's so that they couldn't take me into the Army. I went back to Williamsburg, Virginia and spent two years there.
Jerri: So, you never actually saw active duty?
R.B.: You mean to tell me that living in Williamsburg, and going into a rich economy wasn't active duty?
Donna: But he didn't get sent overseas. And he was gone for two years and three months.
Jerri: That must have been very hard on you. What did you do during that time?
Donna: Well, I worked for Carol Jeffries Grampa. The Jeffries Economy Store.
Belinda: Was that here or there across...
Donna: Where the senior citizens--where the Slim and Trim--is now.
Jerri: Oh, right here in the middle of town.
Donna: Um-hum
Jerri: That was the one that burned, right?
Belinda: Is that the one that burned?
Donna: No, he had a couple of stores burn. He was quite a man that Mr. Soelberg. The one that owned the house that's still up there in that...
R.B.: He made something out of the Depression, and fire, and...I hope you can see this new store now.
Donna: They put his name on it, and I thought that was a real tribute to him. It's a tribute to J.R., and Roy, and Mr. Soelberg because that's...he was in the grocery business...In all kinds of business, he tried to get into it. Then when he came home, he went back out to the Depot to work, [R.B. Is now "he."] and we lived in Tooele. And then he got a chance to buy. Nobody could run that Little Reno. The only one that could sacrifice was him, and me. It didn't...It wasn't ever successful. [Under someone else's ownership.]
R.B.: Well, when you first went to work for the depot, maybe you didn't get paid very much money.
Donna: We nearly starved to death. Yeah.
R.B.: And I remember that when they first paid you, you lined up at a table, and paid you in cash...Like they did in the services, but you weren't making very much. It was terrible...the wages. Over the years the step-grade, and so on, the jobs have turned out pretty good.
Jerri: Yeah. Now they make big bucks, don't they? Fifteen or sixteen dollars (an hour) most of them?
Belinda: I think it depends upon what grade you are.
Belinda: Did you know my grandfather, Lloyd? When you worked at the Depot? If you were driving heavy equipment, he was in heavy equipment, too.
R.B.: Nope. [something. . .too quiet]
Donna: He was driving a truck with cement in it so they could build those igloos. [R.B. said something here that I couldn't understand.] He was building igloos.
R.B.: Yeah, and that place was busy.
Belinda: How deep do those igloos go?
R.B.: They're on the surface. . .Just on the surface.
Belinda: Just on the surface? I've wondered about that. We hear all these stories.
Donna: And then one day we got a letter that says you're now in the Army. So, he went and Joined...got a chance to get in the Seebee's.
R.B.: So, I actually went out as a decko (?). [May not be the right word.]
Donna: Then when he came back, we went back and we got a chance to buy that place with his brother. [Little Reno.] And we went to work up there, after he went to work for. . .he came home ,in December, and worked clear to the next. He worked a year with his brother, and then he sold it to us.
Jerri: Was that a good thing, working with your brother.
R.B.: No. No.
Jerri : Never work with family, huh? Just like: never live with family; never. . .
Belinda: I remember you had something in that store. It was either like a monkey or a bird. Something like that.
R.B.: You mean you forgot Garbo?
Belinda: The memory has haunted me for years, and I cannot remember what it is, but I know I was drinking an Orange crush and my dad had Pepsi. And I always had a marshmallow patty with nuts in it. And I sat on a red...was it a red. . .were they red barstools? Or else the counter was red. Am I right?
Belinda: (Clap! ) I knew it!
R.B.: What did Garbo do, steal your cookie or something? We had a cage back there. (Belinda interrupts: I know. I can remember I wanted a monkey. And that's what gave me the idea, when I was a little girl, that I had to have a monkey. I wanted a monkey, so bad. . . )
Donna: He was the biggest pest. Do you know what he did with it?
Jerri: Oh, no. . .we're going to hear something dreadful .
R.B.: I hope you're not going to tell them anything they shouldn't know.
Donna: He sold it.
Jerri: Oh, well, that's not so bad. I thought he shot it.
R.B.: Oh, it would bite you.
Donna & R.B.: It was mean.
Donna: He had me scared to death.
R.B.: But you could pick up a broom, and start after him, and he'd head for the cage. The only safe place he had.
Belinda: He wasn't very big, though, he was Just a little thing. And he could wear a hat or something. . .He had something on him.. .Didn't he, or is this just my remembering?
R.B.: Just a collar is all. How old are you? (Asked of Belinda. )
Belinda: How old am I now? I'm thirty-four.
R.B.: No, then.
Belinda: I'm thirty-four now. I was born in '57. So it would have been the sixties because I remember coming in from the ranch to Little Reno. [R.B. Said something unintelligible here.]
Jerri: Well, how long did you guys own Little Reno?
R.B.: Over fourteen years. It was terrible in the summer, and working on into the winters. Lots of winters I went up to the Depot and got on. I had to go and work somewhere. . .
Donna: He couldn't stand it all year round.
R.B.: And we knew the road was going to go across the flats. We advertized it for sale, and we sold them.
Jerri: Are you ever sorry that you did?
R.B.: Nope. But I hadn't planned what to do with it when the road changed and it wasn't part of the through-way anymore. I always wanted a house on a street, and work from eight to five like-a human beings.
Jerri: Owning your own business is rough though, anytime. It's not just the motel business. It's any business that you own yourself.
Donna: Well, he got so he didn't hire anybody to work at the station, and he'd go early in the morning, and I wouldn't even see him until he'd come to bed after he'd closed up. One thing we didn't get was robbed.
Jerri: You never did get robbed...
R.B.: We hired a lot of Tooele around here. Ed Watson worked for me. Skogerbowl. Do you know anything about Skogerboe?
Belinda: The man's name doesn't mean anything to me.
Donna: Then there was an Anderson. Rick Sutton.
R.B.: But after awhile the government was coming out and checking, they wanted me to set everything up-withhold for income tax, and social security, and job insurance, and all this crap. And when a state-owned car with a man with his three dollar suit and briefcase came in and he- put it on the counter, and he knew all the answers and all the questions. I said, "It isn't worth it." Kids make mistakes. They give the wrong change, and you add it all up, plus him, and I was doing as much as I can, myself. But. . . that was the end of the story.
Donna: That was near the end.
Belinda: When did you have your kids? Did you only have them two girls?
Donna: Oh, no. Three. I had Ila when I lived in Tooele a year later after the war (started). And she was ten months old when he was drafted. And I didn't think they would take him then, you know. But they did. He was one of the very first ones with children who joined that got taken from Tooele County.
R.B.: We were working late in the cabins one day, and the wife came over with a snake.
Donna: We had snakes, and scorpions. And then the year 1947 was the year we came down here, and Luanne was born in. . .May of 1947. So, it was pretty hard that summer. We did the washing from the house. And then after that, I had a girl that came and helped. But after that, we moved the washing over to the other room. We didn't do it in my house anymore. Then I think it (the business) was good for the kids (something) because I had them work. They had to go to work. So they. . .Soon as they got big enough to do things I had them work. They emptied garbages, and when they got big enough to work ou int the cabins, they worked. So, it didn't hurt them.
Dr. Smith: Well, I thought they were chicken coops. . .
Donna & R.B. They were.
Dr. Smith: Oh, they weren't two-story type chicken coops.
Donna: No, they weren't.
Dr. Smith: Oh, I see.
R.B.: One row (of motels) was made out of two rows of chicken coops. Then we built some along-side of them until we had seventeen units. . .
Dr. Smith: Oh, boy.
R.B.: . . .at one time.
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Donna: ...built this house. He was a contractor, his own contractor. He built that house. He'd hire some people to do certain things. And then we moved away from here, and we rented the place to Jean Miller. You remember Jean Miller? [To Belinda]
Belinda: He sounds really familiar.
Donna: She. . .Her husband used to (something) and she was teaching school. She taught school- (Something. . . . . . . . . ) Then I had Gail which. . .I was thinking of the most. . .things that were the most important in my life, and I was thinking. . .Dust, you know they overgrazed around here when we had the drought. We used to have dust. I don't know if any of you remember the dust that blew.
R.B.: The wind. . .The south wind would blow for weeks and you couldn't see across the street.
Dr. Smith: Oh, really?
Donna: And then, after that. . .And then the wells, they had wells, and the wells went dry. And then they put pumps on them. And it was real. . .It was real difficult for that. I know my dad and mother. . .or my dad had let the lawn dry up because they just didn't have the water to keep the lawn green. And then...And that was really bad, and it was still going on when we met, and we got married we lived in that first. . .cabin because if they didn't rent the cabins, I had to go dust them the next day because the wind would just blow dust so bad. And I think since then they only allow them to put cattle on the. . . (land in South Willow) the-a...cattle and sheep... I think it was the sheep that really took so much...You know, sheep just...
R.B.: Well, the sheep produced a trail, and that's the old sheep lane that they spread out, and the sheep made a dust bowl out of it.
Belinda: And that's why they called it The Dust. (Donna:The Dust Bowl.)
Belinda: Well, I remember my grampa calling it The Dust. Let's take the cows out to the Dust, or bring them home from The Dust.
Donna: And that was real bad. And then the Depression. That was. . .And then World War II was really catas. . .You know, was really. . .made a big impression on me. And then the other thing that I really thought was great was the strides they made in open-heart surgery. Because I was a benefit of that. Because I had rheumatic fever when I was fifteen, and it injured the mitral valve in my heart, and I would've died.
Jerri: What year did you have your heart surgery?
Donna: I had it in 1973.
Jerri: I had mine in 1957. I was one of the first ones to survive an open-heart surgery in Oregon.
Dr. Smith: Hmm.
Donna: Well, I'm. ..That was one thing I was that they. . .One time I told my mother, I said: "I need a new heart." I think she knew it. I didn't get the whole new heart, but I did get the part. The part that was wore out. So, that. . .See, then I lost my brother in World War II. He was killed on Iwo. . .on Iwo Jima. He was twenty-four years old. So, I just hate this war. I think. . .And I wonder. It brings it all back, and I think. . .I don't know whether it's worth it or not. Maybe it is.
Dr. Smith: Well, I think we had the same feeling a couple of weeks ago that we had in 1941, December the Seventh. Same kind of feeling.
Jerri: Sick.
Dr. Smith: A sick feeling. And fear of the unknown.
R.B.: Yeah.
Jerri : Yeah, I can remember where I was when I heard that news. I 'd just finished a piano lesson, and got in my car, and they said: "We are at war." And that horrible feeling came with that knowledge.
Donna: I think at that time during World War II there were twelve million men in the reserves. They had that many men in the armed forces.
Dr. Smith: Is that right?
R.B.: Twelve million.
Belinda: In the American Army? Was that combined? Would there have been Marines then? The Marines, the Navy...
Donna: Oh, yes, They were on both sides. They had...They were fighting in Europe, and they were fighting in the Pacific, and that was the same time. And they started out with nothing, I mean they didn't have even. . .Well, they [the Japanese] shot so many of their ships. . .Bombed so many of their ships, you see, that they didn't have a navy after that. Lucky that they...I really was surprised that they didn't come in and invade us.
Jerri: Just keep coming. . .
Donna: That's what I thought, "Well, maybe they'll just keep coming and invade us." They didn't, they backed off, and let us build up, and then defeat them.
Jerri : So that later they could defeat us.
Donna: They tried to take Hawaii, and now they own it. A lot of the United States, too.
Jerri : Yea, everybody owns a Toyota. and that's about the size of it.
Dr. Smith: Well, I was wondering about Little Reno, there are some pretty wild stories. . .Strange happenings that go on in motels. You know. . .these old. . .You know, the vanishing Hitchhiker stories...
R.B.: They're all true. Every one.
Donna: Tell them about the time that Anderson. . .Calvin Anderson's boy. . .or was it Cal's. . .
R.B.: You know the story, you tell it.
Jerri : I haven't heard it. What story? What kind of a story is it?
Donna: They were hunting that guy that got out of jail and. . .
R.B.: I hate to admit this, but i'm the guy that opened up that Sunday morning, and he walked in and asked me something, and went back out on the high way, and he had just broken prison.
Dr. Smith: Oh my Gosh.
R.B.: You know, when you see so many people, you don't really look at them.
Donna: You don't look at their face.
R.B.: You don't look at them. And just a few minutes later this U.S. . . Elroy Hansen pulled up on Highway Patrol and picked him up, he was on his way to the State line.
Dr. Smith: Oh my gosh.
Donna: He had that happen. . .
R.B.: He wouldn't have done nothing bad on Sunday, would he?
Dr. Smith: Well, I don't know
Belinda: Well, you said you were robbed. What happened when you were?
R.B.: Some hitch-hikers broke in, and they'd taken a .22, and had a lot of stuff gathered up but he couldn't carry it with him. He didn't get away with very much. But I was robbed . . .
Donna: But you never were "stuck up." And, even though at night...
R.B.: No. . Many times they'd run off without paying the gas, and we'd just call Wendover, and they'd grab them. Or we'd call the cop in Tooele, and he'd call Wendover, and we'd have the number and a description, and. . .
Donna: But a lot of times, I'd think if he didn't come home, I'd wonder at one-thirty or two o'clock if somebody had hit him in the head, and if he was laying dead somewhere. But he'd always come home.
R.B.: Darn it. . .
Jerri: You were lucky.
R.B.: Well, my life's story is over. . .So what now? Are you next? Who's gonna tell their life's story? Yours would only take five minutes, you kid.
Donna: Well, she wanted to know about the Opera House.
Belinda: Tell me about. . .You know, I've heard so many stories about that Opera House, and I can never get a straight answer. You know, Morris Wrathall? He was just always hopping mad about that thing being torn down. Now, what's the scoop?
R.B.: Well, now look. . .If they hadn't tore it down, and you had bought it, your dad Jay had bought it, and just boarded it around to keep people out of it for a few years, and then repaired it now, and had shows on the stage, everybody would know about it, you know. Go to the little old Grantsville Opera House in the booths up there. There's no place like that, anymore.
Belinda: (Something) Why?
Donna: But it got. . .It was really run down, and it was getting in really awful, awful shape, and I. . .One time I was in it, we used to have movies in it, you know. And it got. . .Something got on fire, and they made us all go out. And I think they got kinda, you know, afraid. And it would have taken, I don't know how many dollars to fix it up. You know? It's really a shame that it was tore down.
R.B.: Stirl Halliday, who run the Bluebird for years just every time...I've talked to him, and he said: "If I'd have just bought that, it would cost you fifty cents to go look at it."
Dr. Smith: That's right.
R.B.: And there'd be a line every week.
Dr. Smith: Well, What was the opera house... What was it?
R.B.: It was a theater with a stage and a circular...with three stories and booths. It was the county...I just...Didn't it have a ballroom?
Donna: Oh, and that's where we danced.
Dr. Smith: My gosh, it was a regular opera house.
R.B.: A side for (something), and under that was the dance-hall.
Dr. Smith: No kidding. . .
Donna: And we just loved to dance there. It had (something. . . )
R.B.: James R. Williams [Donna's father] watched them build it, and then he watched them tear it down.
Jerri: (to Donna) Your father?
Dr. Smith: Oh my gosh.
Donna: But it was. . .It had one of those spring floors.
R.B.: I don't think it was "spring" but it had some spring to it. It was sure good to dance. . .
Donna: It was a wonderful dance floor, and they all...Everybody loved to dance.
R.B.: It had a pillar in the middle that sit and would hold up the whole works.
Dr. Smith: Oh my gosh.
Donna: And they had. . .and it was just beautiful the woodwork.
Dr. Smith: Yeah.
Jerri: And that's where the post office is now. . .Right? Or is that Academy Square?
Belinda: No, it's...um...
Donna: You know where Stirl's place is? Between Bob's and Stirl's.
Belinda and Jerri: Oh, across from the school. In the parking lot? Oh, that's where it was...
Donna: Right across...We used to grab...I remember graduating from there. We used to go across from there (the Grantsville Elementary School was once the Grantsville High School) and graduate.
Jerri : My gosh.
Dr. Smith: Well , was it built by the Mormons? Or...Did it look like the Tabernacle or something like that? Was it like-a...
R .B. The front of it was teired like that, and it was brick. Red brick. It should've lasted two hundred years.
Dr. Smith : Right.
R.B.: Now the Academy, up here on the corner, was adobe brick.
Donna : Adobe. And that's where they [pioneer children] went to school before they built this high school...or the school across the street from me. That's where my dad, and probably their grampa and grandma...where everybody went...That's where they went to school...The Academy. I remember that I did go to Seminary, at the Academy. I can't exactly remember when they tore that down, but...it probably wasn't...it probably couldn't have stood it. The time...I don't think it could've, do you? The Academy...
Jerri : I know somebody who has pictures...um...Edna Knowlton. You know Edna? She and...Oh there are about four women who graduated the same year. From high school...out of the opera house, and they had their class picture taken in front of it. They made a book not too long ago, at their fiftieth reunion, and they all got a book that had pictures of old Grantsville in it. That was the most interesting book I'd ever read. It was really interesting.
Donna : Now, my mother...That chair right there...My mother won that chair (something) when she was sixteen-years-old.
Jerri : Oh my gosh.
Dr. Smith: Beautiful chair.
Donna: And she won it at some drawing. And they used to have people come and put on shows from out of...of...shows that went around. Besides it's like my dad wrote about it. (I think he wrote about it. ) And he said that most of it was...was the amateur. They had plays.
R.B.: I think if you were to see the stage now, it would be a little, tiny stage.
Belinda: That's what I picture it as.
R.B.: But the stage was probably no bigger than this. [Their front room.]
Donna: But they had...they had a couple-a curtains, and plenty of room in the back that you could get dressed in, and come in and you know what to do in the stages. And they could have...
Dr. Smith: Well, you know, I was just over in the Uintah Basin last summer, and the Tabernacle there belongs to the Mormon church. It was built in 1904, and it's a great building. And it is a beautiful building. They're trying to get rid of it. They want to tear it down. They don't want to fix it. But it is gorgeous, a gorgeous Tabernacle. It is just crazy to think that they would destroy something historical like that. It's on the register of...the historical register, but they still want to. Townspeople are trying to hang on to it, and restore it, but...
Donna: Well, it would have cost a lot of money to have restored that, but. ...Made it safe. They did make them put...a way to get out of it from upstairs...you know...outside. I think if it had got on fire...I don't know but, it's too bad they tore it down. I gave some pictures to Lucy Sandberg...some pictures...some papers that I had that she was gonna hang in the Hostess Ring during the Sociable, and it had the boxes, the loges in it. Pictures of the Opera House inside. If I'd've had that now, I could've showed you how it was inside. I just gave that to her this afternoon. She wanted these classic old newspapers, and she wanted (something unintelligible).
Jerri : Yea, every year, here, they have what they call: The Old Folks Sociable, and they used to put on a show just before or they used to start practicing a show through a theater company called: The Grantsville Opera House company.
Belinda and Donna: Memorial company. That's what it is.
Jerri : And they put on a show, but they haven't put it on for a couple of years.
Belinda: Well, the Old Folks Sociable it's been around for a hundred years.
Jerri and Donna: Or more.
Belinda: It's just an institution around here. It happens every year, regardless of whether you want to go or not. It's gonna happen.
Jerri : Yea, they assign people certain jobs in the city. You don't have any say so, if they assign you--you do it! Or go to jail!
Donna: I asked my grandmother, I says: "How come they started the Sociable?" And she said: "Well, they have to stay indoors so much,...you know...and winters were so cold, and so when it started to kind of breaking up they would all get together, and have this,...that they called: Sociable." And they'd all get together and they'd dance. And they loved to dance, and they'd have a dinner, and they would dance, and have a program.
Belinda: usually.
Donna: And it's just kind of to get over the winter, and it (the Sociable) used to be so big, not like now, but then at that time they used to...When I was a teenager, and a girl, why we used to have dinner for the kids. You know, we didn't use have lunch in the lunchroom, so they would furnish a meal on Friday for us, and then the teenagers would have a dance on Friday evening, and a dinner, and usually...I think Thursday night or whatever it was they had the Old Folks...They used to have what they called the merry members. I don' t know if you remember those or not. We used to go to those dances, too. They use to love to dance. People would square dance, people would all dance. We used to go up to Mirror Windows, and Dad and Mother used to look at us.
Belinda: Where did they have that at?
Donna: They'd have them in the Opera House, and then we got so that we, we would hold them in the old gym, and then they tore that down, too. The old gym at the back of the high school. But mostly I think they just were stuck here, and they didn't...It was hard to get to Salt Lake...It almost took two days, didn't it? To go to Salt Lake by horse and buggy... just getting to Salt Lake. And Grantsville's been much the same as it is now.. .I think. You can't buy...I guess you can buy a pair of shoes here now. I don't know whether you can or not.
Jerri: Yeah, you can from Williams...Tennis shoes.
Donna: We've always been just close enough to Tooele or Salt Lake that they just went to Tooele or they went to Salt Lake to shop. And, consequently, they never did really build up their businesses that much in clothing and some other businesses. And the grocery store is the biggest it's ever... and that's Soelberg's Grocery Store.
Belinda: Oh, but we used to have three grocery stores, because we had McCoy's and then we had Lee Anderson. Now were you related to Lee?
Donna: Um-hum...No, he's not one Of them. [Donna's husband--R.B.]
Belinda: How are you related to Lee? Was it because of. ..because he was a Clark? Are you related to the Clark's?
R.B.: AND Donna: (Pointing at two pictures of a man and a Woman on their living-room wall.) See those two people right there?
Dr. Smith: Who are they?
R.B.: They started the whole county.
Donna: Well, they started the whole town.
R.B.: If you look at it from far enough, everybody...this town is inbred.
Dr. Smith: Well, who are they?
Donna: They are: Thomas Henry Clark and Charlotte Gable Clark. (R.B. John Clark) And she was the first one in my family to join the church. [The LDS church] And she joined the church when Wilford Woodruff went to England, and he got the six hundred, - whole big bunch of them to join the church- And these people joined the church. They were in another church. They had to have a license to have a church at that time. They had left their church in England, and they had their own little church, and when he went there they just all joined the church...joined the Mormon church. And he... [John Clark] he was older. He had a son which was my grandmother's father. And he was old enough to be baptized, too. And he...So they stayed there for awhile, and they all immigrated. And when they came here...they came to Grantsville. And one of his sons ( ? ) was Lee Anderson's grandfather. And one of his sons, was one of my grandfathers.
R.B.: (To Belinda) How did the Worthington's come to this country?
Belinda: Well, they came from England.
Donna: Most of them came from England, didn't they?
Belinda: Um-hum.
R.B.: Old Englishmen.
Belinda: Gosh, I'd have to get out my spread-sheet and show you. I've got all those like that. But...um...they came, you know with some of the first land-ships to settle, and then when the indians were harassing them, then they headed on over to Pine Canyon, and spent a winter over there, but one of them went to California when they struck gold...out there. And then he came back and then...Was it Jethro? He...um...went up to Skull Valley, and stayed out there. That's what Ma's Creek, and Dad's Creek...all those are named after them.
R.B.: The Worthington's have got a history, sure puts them in a better light.
Belinda: Yea, they do.
Donna: Well, they did have a(n) indian fort here. They had that little one up there around where the First Ward church is now. They had that fort, and the indians, I guess, bothered them quite a bit, and then they kind of liked them. And the indians were the...Where the trailer court is now, the indians used to camp there.
Jerri: Which trailer court?
Belinda: The Indian Hills.
Jerri: Oh, of course. Duh...
Donna: The indians used to camp there, and I remember when they were...when I was really young they used to come around, and my grandmother always said: "It's better to feed them than to fight them." They'd come and knock on our door, and she'd usually give them a loaf of bread or give them something to eat, and then they would... And even when I was...we were married, they were there, [The indians living where the Indian Hill trailer court is now.] living with us. They'd come in there, and they'd live part of each year in the trailer court.
Belinda: Well,, I remember when the gypsies came to town. Do you remember that? An entire caravan of gypsies moved in here, and lived in Indian Hills.
R.B.: Well, didn't they make tables and chairs.
Belinda: They were happy to help themselves.
Jerri: I've always heard gypsies were light-fingered.
Belinda: Did they ever come up to Little Reno? Did you have Little Reno then?
R. B. I don't remember. Huh-uh.
Dr. Smith: Did they come from Nevada?
Donna: They just went around all over. From one place to another.
R.B.: Well, they had this migration route through here.
Donna: Stop off for a laugh.
R.B.: And I think they came through here to go clear to California. [There was more said on this subject, but I couldn't make it out.]
Jerri: Who else are you guys related to then? I mean, I know there is a lot of inbreeding here.
Belinda: Oh, it's not inbreeding. We're just all related.
Jerri: Sneeze on one person in Grantsville, all the relatives say, "Achoo." I Mean, all of them. They all say, "Excuse me." You know, I've run into Judds who I didn't know was a Judd until I was told later. I mean there are Judds all through this place. Williams all through this place. Clark's all over the place.
Donna: Clarks are all over the place.
R.B.: Just donned on me why all of us Tooele guys done so well down here.
Belinda: When everybody was somebody's cousin.
R.B.: You were related.
Dr. Smith: Yea, right.
Donna: I don't think the Grantsville guys went up there much, but there sure were a lot of Tooele guys married Grantsville girls around that time. A lot of the girls around here are in Tooele living.
Jerri: So, are you related to any of the other long lines...l mean, that are here besides the Williamses and Clarks?
Donna: Yes, I'm related to the Judds.
Jerri: See??
Donna: No, I'm not related to the Judds.
Belinda: Do you know anything about the story about the McBride brothers that shot the Doctor? Because he was being very familiar with their wife and sister? Do you know anything about that? No? Okay. I'll have to find someone else with that story.
R.B.: Is it true they used to have tunnels from house to house out there? (Out where Belinda is building her new home.)
Belinda: I've heard that.
R.B.: For the polygamists to their wives?
Belinda: You mean on our ranch?
R.B.: and Donna: Yes. Um-hmm.
Belinda: Well, that's been discussed. No. Really, we think we've found the opening. Bart McBride came out and he said, "This is where it is, and I have been down in that tunnel." And so, our tunnel went to another polygamist family. And here we're supposed to be talking to them, and you're not...you're talking to me.
Donna: But the Wooley's...see it was the Wooley's, wasn't it? Belinda: Um-hmm. But in all of these years there was this great, big hole in the ground, and it had rocks on each side of it. Really good Masonry. Well, my mom and dad would say, "You kids are gonna fall in it." So, we'd throw rocks in it. And we were told when we went for our walk, when we were herding cows or something, that we were to throw rocks in this hole. "Just throw a rock in it. Then get away from it." So, we've spent all these years throwing rocks in this hole, and it's supposed to hook to the tunnels... But about this time of year, if we've had a really good snow Storm, there is an area where the snow melts first and it leads down.
R.B.: [In a whisper] There's (Something) buried there.
Dr. Smith: I'll bet there are.
Belinda: We've heard there's buried treasure.
Jerri: Oh, boy.
Donna: I don't think there's any...be any skeletons, but you see they didn't like to give up...This property right here, there was a(n) adobe house here. And it was facing north, and there was a lady here...that lived here that was the polygamist wife of Hazel Johnson's father. She had four sons, and she was cousin to my grandmother. And when they banished the polygamy, you see, and there was no more polygamy, she just gathered up her fortune and went to Salt Lake and began to teach school, and raised her own children and gave it up. But the Wooley's...now the way I understand it...I was just very, very young at the time, but they. ..course they didn't want to give up their wife and their children, and I guess maybe, they didn't. I don't know. They could've tried to carry it on without being arrested. Because they were arrested, and they were harassed, and they were everything else for polygamy.
Belinda: Well, you know J. Reuben Clark was born...or it was his mother.. No, he was born on the ranch down one of the Clark family houses. And we Clark family come out...oh, every three years, five years. Some of them want to look. And he has the ranch thing out there. He was the ambassador to Mexico.
Belinda: And he had this great big fleur-de-lis on his buildings on most of it, and that was the deed that was given my grandfather when he bought the Wooley place.
Dr. Smith: Sounds exciting.
Belinda: But I hear there is another tunnel in this town.
Jerri: Tell us where.
Belinda: Up on Plum street inbetween two houses. Have you heard of that one? Where have you guys been you don't know any of these good stories?
R.B.: Is it up by the old McBride place? Anything can happen there.
Belinda: Did you hear that they found a still in the old green house?
R.B.: Yes.
Belinda: I couldn't believe that.
Donna: In the where?
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Belinda: He had a souped up car, and the feds(or whatever you call them) they'd catch him and they finally got him one day and they said, "Look Mr. Van Noy, you either leave this county or we're going to put you in jail." So, he went down to Ogden, and worked, and then he came here. ..[something.] But he ran "shine" and we're very proud of that fact. That Grampa ran "shine."
Dr. Smith: Oh, wow.
Jerri: You guys have a much more interesting history than I do.
Belinda: Well, you've got some really neat antiques there. Where did you get those? [Alluding to a table with old things that had been set up for our perusal.]
Donna: When my mother. ..or my dad passed away, I thought I'd tell you that when they bought stuff they didn't...they took the things instead of in a package, they would take their things...instead of the way we get things now and it's so packaged all the time. And this little thing here...this is how they got their vinegar. They had coffee all the time, they didn't use to have any Coke. They probably don't have anything. They used to go and fill...(R.B. that with vinegar.) [Something] It was cheaper then the way we do it now.
Dr. Smith: Yes, it would be a lot cheaper. Well, what's that next... that Carnation?
Donna: I guess they bought coffee in great big things like that, and then my mother used it for storage. This is an old "weevil." It's really old fashioned.
Dr. Smith: Boy, that's antique.
Donna: And this is an old album.
Dr. Smith: My gosh. Oh my gosh, look at that, Can it be opened?
Donna: Um-hmm. Yes, it can be opened. There are some pictures in there I wish I knew who all the people are...wish she'd [the previous owner-- possibly Donna's mother] been kind enough to have wrote the names.
Belinda: Now is that organ. ..Was that your mom's?
Donna: No, that was my grandmother's.
Belinda: Was it ever in your mom's house?
Donna: Um-hmm.
Belinda: Because I had...I remember seeing it a long time ago.
Donna: And that's an antique. I can open it up for you, if you want.
Dr. Smith: Boy. Well, this is priceless.
Donna: It has one "stop." Would you like to play? (Said to Jerri)
Jerri: If you guys want me to play, I'll play for you.
Donna: I don't have a stool.
Jerri: That's alright.
[At this point there were a lot of small conversations going on. It is hard to separate them for the next few minutes. I will pick it up again when I can...]
Jerri: Yeah, I do occasionally. Occasionally. [This was in response to a question about whether or not Jerri plays the wood recorder learned in a previous class.]
Belinda: Matilda Jeffries Stookey?
Donna: Oh, really?
Belinda: When did [Something] come over here?
R.B.: I know that she's related to them.
Belinda: Well, I thought that the Stookey's stayed over in Rush Valley.
Donna: They did. My grandpa Jeffries sister married a Stookey.
Belinda: Well, that should impress Grantsville. You know, Mary Worthington the singing group...It had a Stookey-guy in it. Mary and Peter...
Nancy: Peter, Paul and Mary.
Belinda: Yes, uh-huh. Well, Paul...Was it Paul Stookey? Paul Stookey was from here...from here...from Rush Valley.
Dr. Smith: Are you serious? Peter, Paul and Mary. Are you serious?
Donna and Belinda: Yes. Yeah, he was. They had a dairy and a mink farm.
Dr. Smith: You're not kidding. Really? Paul Stookey?
Belinda: Was it Paul? Or was it Peter? I could never...
Nancy: I think it was the little guy.
Belinda: I think it was the tall guy because Stookey's were tall.
Nancy: Because I have a kindergarten song in my class. [Something.] [There is some talking going on between at least two groups. I can't find the thread of either conversation.]
Belinda: Now, you can tell me...You know Hildi Erickson. And you know Jay Hicks? How is Jay Hicks related to Hildi Erickson? (Donna has been explaining to Jerri how the organ works.) A pump organ. Wow!
Jerri: Do you guys mind?
Belinda: Go ahead.
Dr. Smith: Go for it. Okay.
Belinda: How was Hildi Erickson related to Jay Hicks? You know Jay?
R.B.: Her maiden name was Anderson.
Belinda: Hildi Anderson, yes. Is Jay Hicks her grandson?
[Lots of things going on simultaneously.]
Jerri: Some of the keys don't work. Some of them stick or something.
Dr. Smith: Well, that's really antique, isn't it?
Dr. Smith: Wow! Look at that Bible.
Donna: Yea, we got the Bible.
Jerri: [About the organ.] I didn't realize that's what this was...I didn't.
Donna: You didn't know what it was.
Jerri: No, I thought it was a desk or something.
Donna: Well, I don't play, but my mother gave her piano to my sister, and so I asked if I could have the organ.
Jerri: It is gorgeous.
Dr. Smith: Was that your family Bible, Mr. Anderson?
R.B.: No, it isn't.
Donna: It belonged to my mother, and my grandmother.
Donna: Oh, did it?
R.B.: (Something) There weren't many around...[something]
Dr. Smith: Oh, is that right? It's the best one I've seen. It's beautiful.
Belinda: Now is your name Arby--A-R-B-Y-? Or is that a nickname?
R.B.: A nickname.
Belinda: What's your real name?
R.B.: Richard Blaine Alphonso Garcia Arnaz. Alias Anderson.
Belinda: Your kidding? And that's where you got Arby?
R.B.: I'm telling you...
Belinda: Donna, is he telling the truth?
Donna: No, his name is Richard Blaine.
Belinda: Where did you get Arby?
Donna: R.B. Arby.
Belinda: R.B.
Belinda: And where did you get that monkey at? How come? My mother bought him for me.
Donna: His mother bought it, and it was a danged pest.
Belinda: From a traveling salesman.
R.B.: It was the gypsies.
Dr. Smith: Oh my gosh.
Donna: From the gypsies...[something]...and it got down in the basement of the service station, and it got into the bluing that we used in the washer, and went all over everything. I could-a killed it.
R.B.: Do you know its name?
Belinda: Garbo. After Greta?
Jerri: That's not really a compliment.
Belinda: I mean, you have got to have a really good story about that motel, and about people having rendezvous in it. Okay let's hear one. Leave the names out.
R.B.: We had a man and a women that were professors at the University of Utah that come every Friday.
Jerri: And not with their spouses, huh?
R.B.: And they'd tell me it wouldn't take very long...four dollars. For years!
Dr. Smith: Is that right?
Belinda: Every Friday, huh? Same room? Same cabin?
R.B.: You could tell...They'd come in and you'd rent them a cabin, and if they didn't stay very long, well...And lots of times it was rented twice.
Donna: Just change the sheets.
Belinda: Are there any good stories about people around here. You can leave their names out.
R.B.: Yes...there is. One of your neighbors...
Belinda: One of my neighbors?
R.B.: This isn't a lily-white town.
Belinda: Oh, I know that!
R.B.: Brother, this is Grantsville.
Donna: Don't tell them that or I'll be mad.
Dr. Smith: Well, what about the cemetery? I was just talking to a lady that a. . .This morning up at Utah State whose family. . .her mother was raised in Tooele. I'm not sure about her father...Her name is Lindford. She said it was a very interesting cemetery over here. In Grantsville.
Belinda: It's the same old cemetery I know. It just keeps growing.
R.B.: There's great big headstone with Worthington on it.
Belinda: There's one with Wooley, and one with Sandberg, and one with Anderson, and Barrus.
R.B.: Ones with the old-fashioned names. When you lived in Tooele they heard 'bout the Johnsons, and the Wrathalls, and they were. . . (something)
Donna: They built these big homes around here like them Rydalches. See James mother brought James around, and they built that big home over there. They tore it down, but there are some big homes.
Belinda: That home was haunted. Did you know that? I swear. It was haunted. I saw that ghost.
R.B.: At the top of the stair.
Belinda: Yes, uh-huh. On the landing?
R.B.: I saw the same one.
Belinda: You saw it?
Jerri: Is it true that the flower-shop was haunted?
Belinda: Oh, yes.
Jerri: Tell me about that one.
Belinda: The one that I was in?
Donna: My aunt and sister lived there. That was her home.
Jerri: See...um...I live just behind it, and I've heard stories, and I've seen a couple of things, and I wondered if it was really haunted or if it's my imagination.
Belinda: Oh, I've heard all kinds of stories, and they came in and did... I was the first one in...to put the flower-shop in there after Alice and... What was Sample...What was his name? Charlie. Oh. Weren't they a character? They were characters. Alice with her...down here, and...Soo dirty.
Donna: They never let the church down.
Belinda and R.B.: All that money. And he wore those dirty, greasy pants.
Donna: And she was afraid he would take the money, I guess...or that someone would take her money. She always had her purse, she never let it leave her.
Belinda: And she'd always wear these dirty, greasy clothes. You never saw her on the street cleaned up much.
Jerri: And they were the first ones that had the haunted house? l mean they lived in it?
Donna: No. No. It belonged to my grandma's sister...They were Wooley's.
Jerri: And what happened?
Belinda: They built it.
Donna: I went there all the time when I was a kid because she was...my grandma used to send me up there. I didn't ever think it was haunted.
Belinda: Well, this has happened in recent past.
Jerri: Well, let me tell you what I saw. I was going home one night, and it was before they opened it just recently. l mean, you know last...What's it been opened three years? Something like that? And I went by there before anything was in there, and I saw blue lights upstairs. I mean...blue lights.
Donna: Well, there must've been somebody there.
Jerri : Well, I get goose bumps even thinking about it.
Dr. Smith: Moving blue lights? They were moving?
Jerri: Yes, moving blue lights.
Dr. Smith: Sounds bad, doesn't it?
Jerri: It was before their electricity was on, and so I told somebody about it and they said: "Oh, well you just what everybody in Grantsville sees off and on in that house." So I wondered what the history was behind the house.
Belinda: Well, somebody told me what it was...I moved the flower-shop in there, and they said, "You're putting your flower-shop in there?" And I said, "uh-huh." And they said, "Don't you know that's haunted?" Well, you know how late florists work, and you were working on funerals. It was bad enough to be working on funerals, but in a haunted house? So, I thought, "Oh well, I really want to find out about this." So, BYU has a center where they study haunted houses and that kind of stuff. I called them up and talked to them. "This and this and this is what you look for..." So, you know how your imagination goes. I didn't stay there long enough.
Dr. Smith: Did you go back?
Belinda: I did I...
R.B.: I think you're safe. "It" can't get out. Just don't go in the house.
Belinda: "It's" there. But I remember a couple of times I heard some noises. . .It would go "chunk."
R.B.: She's the one that's in trouble, if she goes in that house.
Jerri: Well, they've had the flower-shop there, and I don't know that they have seen anything.
Belinda: Jane and LouRae wouldn't see anything.
Jerri: No imagination? Are you saying I have an active imagination?
Belinda: Maybe I could talk to Donna and see if you want to stay the night there.
Jerri: No, no, no, no, no. No thank you. I can do without paranormal. I know paranormal, you know, because that's what I am.
Donna: Well, I was wondering if there was somebody up there that shouldn't be. You might call the police.
Belinda: Well, supposedly some bishops have gone in as Elders of the church and done something...given the house a blessing. I was even told that, but I don't know.
Donna: See she died, and he lived there quite awhile after. (Something)
R.B.: You know, she had so much money she couldn't care less about the house.
Belinda: Alice?
R.B.: She was the gal with the purse that lived in that house.
Donna: I wonder if she found some money.
Jerri: Maybe people are searching for the money. I wouldn't touch it in the daylight.
Dr. Smith: Yea, right.
Belinda: You know what my father-in-law says about Charlie. This was Charlie's philosophy about paying bills: He would create a bill-pile, and as soon as yours come to the top, then he ,would pay you, and the new ones would go to the bottom. And if you called him and wanted your money, and offended him, then you went to the bottom immediately.
Dr. Smith: Oh, boy.
Jerri: That's great. That's funny. Well, so what did you see in there?
Belinda: Oh, I...I just heard some noises, but I think it was...One night I was in there and I was working really late, and I heard this... "chunk"... "chunk"..."chunk" And it just gave me goosebumps right up my back and I thought, "What is that?" And I was scared to death, and I thought, "I'm not here alone." And at that great big glass window on the side, I looked out there, and I thought, "Somebody's got to be outside." And it quit and then it started again..."chunk"..."chunk" ..."chunk"...And so I walked outside, and there... You know that Wrathall, that couple that lived there, that young couple that lived there about seven years ago? She was really pretty. Young with a couple of kids.
R.B.: We should know.
Jerri: Greg, Greg and...
Belinda: Yea, Greg...Uh-huh. He was outside chopping wood.
Jerri: Oh...
Dr. Smith: So, the house isn't haunted. Oh heck. Well, I tell you, that's the last work he ever done.
R.B.: Greg Hawker.
Jerri: That's it--Greg Hawker.
Belinda: Um-hmm. Greg Hawker. Now that's another family that was incredible, the Hawkers.
R.B.: They got some of theirs by boot-legging.
Belinda: I never knew about the boot-legging.
R.B.: Do you know old Dallin Oakstien?
Belinda: See my grandparents house was right here, and I remember going down there. They were down that road.
Dr. Smith: Well, Grantsville sounds a lot like Raymond, Alberta.
Belinda: What can we say?
Jerri: Isn't that a real coincidence?
Donna: Oh, we have wide streets...didn't they?
R.B.: And that town had curbs and gutters when we were there.
Donna: They had curb and gutters.
Dr. Smith: Well, they didn't when I was there. They've been put in since.
Donna: Maple Street was more than what Grantsville is. [something]
Dr. Smith: Oh, do you think so?
R.B.: Do you know any Anderson's or Bevan's up there?
Dr. Smith: Didn't know Bevans, but knew lots of Anderson's. Uh-huh. Oh, yea.
Donna: Were there any other Anderson's?
R.B.: Henry Anderson?
Dr. Smith: Umm. . .I don't recall a Henry Anderson. Was he a plumber? Or tinsmith?
R.B.: He was a Jack-of-all-trades. He could do anything. As long as he got paid.
Donna: I think most of them have come back, haven't they?
R.B.: They must've beat starvation out because they all wandered back to Grantsville. We told them, "Come on and come back."
Dr. Smith: Well, there was a lot of them that went up from Logan, and from Cache Valley, and Brigham City...a lot of them went up that way. You know, Raymond a...There are more people from Raymond, I think, than any town in the United States or Canada.
R.B.: You know, they left. There are no natives in town.
Dr. Smith: There are no natives in town.
Donna: He went back...or your uncle went back up. (Something) His mother's brother. Joe Bevan but then he married some lady up in Lethbridge, but that's a little bit north of there.
R.B.: Joe Bevan went up. I'd like to go up there again.
Dr. Smith: [Lethbridge] Yea, it's about twenty miles north.
Belinda: Well, tell me. . .You're from Tooele. . .How did the Tate's get into the mortuary business? Were they just trained morticians? I've always wondered why.
R.B.: My brother, Bill, married a Hanks...Al Hanks's daughter, and they're related to the Tate's.
Donna: Well, Ellen's mother was a Tate...was a sister to the Tate's. . .the Tate girls. . . [Something]
Belinda: LouRae and Jane...
R.B.: Well, they just started doing weddings.
Belinda: Well, but no...I mean the Tate mortuary. Tate mortuary...
Donna: Well, you can tell me about the mortuary.
Belinda: Because those houses...those two houses right there next to the mortuary just look old...like about Tooele's oldest. How did they just move here and were they just the morticians? Or did it happen by accident?
R.B.: E. Levar Tate lives there. . .he's the mortician. His father just died recently, and he was old. . .really old. A hundred. Tate/Hicks furniture in Tooele for years he was involved in just keeping that. And then they married into a millionaire family. The lady upon the hill who owns Middle Canyon. That's history because we speak of our sister. [I'm really not sure about that last line. ] [Something]
Donna: How did they get in the mortuary business? How did they get in the mortuary business?
Donna: They didn't get it because of her.
R.B.: Nope. They bought it from...I don't know...I can't remember who it was...I can see the guy, but I can't remember his name. He said, "Be there and be the mortician."
Donna: But if you think those two houses are old-looking on the outside, you go in. They have got a swimming pool in the whole thing.
Belinda: Well, I know. There is some old money in that family. Money.
R.B.: Tate is rich.
Jerri: A swimming pool in the house?
Belinda, R.B., and Donna: No, outside. Out back. Out in back.
R.B.: He was in our class, and had a party in that house.
Donna: He's the same age as R.B.
Belinda: Well see, I ...When I was a florist, we would take the flowers in, in that back door, and we would have to ring it...we would have to ring the bell that would ring over into the mortician. Those morticians, you don't even want to deal with them. You think that they're somber, they're not. They pull the dirtiest tricks on people. They are mean. Oh, they're awful. I remember seeing that pool out there.
Donna: Well, he was well-to-do before he ever got into being a mortician. [Something] Because his dad was wealthy. [E. Levar Tate is the "he" here.]
R.B.: Yes.
Donna: They were wealthy to start with, and then I don't think he's run it though.
R.B.: But isn't one of his sons running it now?
Donna: Oh, well, I don't know.
Belinda: I think...I thought one of them was...At least there was when I worked there.
Dr. Smith: Well, we're going to have to leave, it's a quarter after seven. You've got a class, haven't you?
Belinda: I have another class I have to get to.
Dr. Smith: Well, what a great pleasure it has been to visit with you... Both of you.
R.B.: But it's only been fifteen minutes. You came at five-thirty, it must be a quarter to six. Gasp! What happened?
Donna: You don't listen to him!
Dr. Smith: Well, it's been a wonderful visit.
Belinda: At least I know now it was a monkey, and I really wasn't insane.
R.B.: You should've asked Jay, he comes to see me every month.
Belinda: I know he does. My dad is his [R.B.'s] home teacher.
Dr. Smith: Oh, really? Wonderful!
Belinda: My dad just loves you two. He likes to come here.
R.B.: He brings us gifts. We love him too.
Belinda: Don't you just love to see the things he makes?
R.B.: He's out writing, or he makes a napkin holder...[Something]
Donna: Here are the things that he made for us. He bought us potatoes. He bought us candy for Christmas.
Jerri: How come I never get home teachers like that?
Belinda: I don't know.
Donna: Hey, you have two good ones. He just does all kinds of things, you know, and they laugh and joke, and have the biggest time, and they stay here for an hour.
R.B.: He can remember Little Reno.
Donna: He puts on a show.
Jerri: Well, I feel like I know Grantsville a little better. I don't know if I want to know it as well as I know it now. But it was really interesting. You guys know a lot.
Dr. Smith: Well, we thank you for your hospitality.
[Goodbyes shared all around.]
****************************End of Side Three****************************
**End of the Tape Recording made at the home of R.B. And Donna Anderson***